Civil Aviation Forum | Is A350-1000 doomed to fail?

With continued criticism from Qatar & Emirates the aircraft's two largest customers with 40/62 of the aircraft on order and a potentially very strong competitor in the 777X, can the A350-1000 ever be a success?

http://mcpchd.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/is-airbus-a350-1000-doomed.html

I hope it doesnt fail, but I dont know. I think it might pick up.

Airbus has to decide what they want the 350 to do, do they want it to compete with the 77W? ( i doubt it holds a candle to the 77W). or do they want it be the size of the 346 with better range, economics etc.

Until airbus decides what they want the aircraft to be cable of they arent going to sell it.

Boeing has built an amazing machine and they have experience of building great aircraft, the 707, 727, 737, 747, 757/767, 777.

They are doing things right in engineering and design, their down fall is the board of directors.

The A350-1000 will do to the 777-300ER what that plane did to the A346.

What the wingnuts can't accept is that the proposed 777X will still have a metal body. The A35J will be mostly composite. The per-seat weight will be lower and that will give the A35J an advantage. Where the problems lie are mostly in the engines.

Airbus originally specified the A35J with a throttle-push version of the Trent XWB identical to that of the A358 and A359. Since then the A35J has grown in weight and a new variant of Trent is being developed which has a larger core and can handle the thrust requirements. So instead of one engine powering all versions (A358 with a derate, A359 the baseline and A35J with that throttle-push) the airlines ordering a mixture of versions now might end up with two lots of engines and two lots of costs.

To accommodate this new design the in-service date has been delayed and the airlines don't all like the changes and delays.

Screw Boeing. All they want to do is warm over their design and give it plastic wings and new engines. It will, however, still be a bit bigger than the A35J and might have a range advantage but at a much higher fuel burn average than the Airbus.

I agree with whitehatter, Boeing has a great tradition to tweak their aircraft models close to endlessly. They has also another great tradition - to use an old design on a new aircraft type. The 777 got its cockpit section from the 767. The 737 got its cockpit section from the 727 that got it from the 707. In reality a surprisingly large part of the 737MAX has its roots planted in the early 1950s and the Dash 80. We may well end up seeing an over 100 year old designs in the air at the end of 737MAX's life. Even the 757 fuselage barrel can be traced back to the Dash 80. What about 787 Lateliner? Forget about the windows and look at the shape of the nose. I would say it is a reincarnation of the Comet nose. The Comet nose was so advanced that Sud Aviation just had to put it on the Caravelle. By the way, the only almost silent part of the Caravelle was inside the cockpit.

As I see it, the only areas with real progress at Boeing have been the wing design and engines. But then many of the wing designers comes from Long Beach and MDC, and for the engines we have even one manufacturer from Derby in the forefront.

Don't get me wrong, I really want the A350 to succeed. But currently, the A350-1000 only has 4 customers/62 orders (more may be announced at FAS of course).

Of those four customers, Qatar and Emirates are responsible for 40 (60%). Etihad has reduced its order from 25 down to just 12 and Asiana has 10 on order. The two biggest customers, Qatar & Emirates are both very unhappy and claim Airbus redesigned the -1000 without even consulting them about it.

I'm just worried that Airbus doesn't know what the A350-1000 should be and have made a mess of it. If they are forced to redesign it again, that's even longer to wait.

Boeing must be laughing at them.

Only because the wingnuts at a.net are saying that. If you honestly think John Leahy is going on the road with an aircraft that isn't defined then think again.

Airbus are saying over and over that the problem isn't the plane. It's slots. Airlines want them fast and so far there have been hardly any cancellations (compared to the 7LATE7 it's practically none!). The bulk of orders are pushing the first available slots well to the right and airlines don't want to be ordering so far into the future. Keeping the A330 FAL going also means that a new facility at Toulouse has had to be developed out of the former A300 plant IIRC, and maybe a second line is going to be needed.

The above does not fit the airliners.net fanboy agenda so you will rarely hear it. It is the success of the A350-900 that is the issue. Boeing can't even get one version delivered in bulk, never mind the three Airbus are selling actively.

To add more to this, it will also mean Rolls Royce producing their first engine commercially that will run in excess of 100,000lbs static thrust. The Trent 800 was pushed as far as the Trent 8115 demo engine which matched the GE90 in grunt but was never launched fully.

There was also a Trent 8104 which also never went into production, however the XWB version will be cleaner and much more efficient thanks to loads of new technology from Advance3 going into the engine. The Trent 800 was a 1990s design, and the XWB is very much a second decade engine. The A35J could end up being a very hard act to beat.

which is why I keep saying the a.net wisdom and fanboy crap is exactly that, crap.

The problem is an Airbus FAL that is booked solid. Should IAG come in with a big order for BA and Iberia then it'll change the discussion completely. BA need to start considering replacing their early GE model 777s before much longer and the slots are becoming hard to get. The 773ER is only a stopgap on short leases or bought at a discount (hence the 6N models in the fleet instead of all 36 variants). Iberia likewise have the A346 to roll over.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/british-airways-may-take-more-777-300ers-as-it-ponders-big-twin-order-372729/

The Problem is with Airbus, They announce things WAY to early, Like the A380 for Example what, was it announced in 1998 or something? or at least the idea was tossed around that Airbus were going to build a Double Deck Aircraft. I remember watching a Program on Discovery Airplanes or whatever it was around 2005 ish when they had their First Flight, any everyone was Going Crazy, I like innovative Ideas but I think Boeing may have 'pipped Airbus Industries to the post with their 787.

787 is a plastic 787 that is too modern for itself.I mean whats wrong with normal window shades? Give me a 20 year old aircraft any day.
Still wanna go on it though