Manchester Airport Forum | More News Views and Rumours (June 12 cont...)

One more time with feeling....

So it appears that once again Madrid is going to be unserved from MAN.

Why 3 carriers decided to jump on the route, not only all together but at pretty much exactly the same time is beyond me.

Mind you, Iberia may have actually stood a chance IF THEY DID SOME EFFING ADVERTISING!!!!!!

Lets hope MAN are speaking to the three airlines to try and get someone back on the route.

FR MAD loads always seemed pretty consistent so I can't see why they'd pull out...

FR is still in GDS, but only the BA code share is available on the ex-IB route, so hopefully they can be persuaded.

Out of the other carriers, who could take on MAD? Monarch (again)? I doubt Jet2 are interested.

Im genuinely shocked IB couldn't work. I was told that the yields were good, and with a bit of advertising, could have done even better.

For South America, I bet TAP will be laughing all the way to the bank now.....

In some positive news, Air Blue should be putting the A340-300 on the MAN route from 14th September.

Its not clear if the route will go direct, or if they will continue to 'top up' the aircraft with pax in Istanbul, but a good step none the less.

Will be nice to see a regular A340 once again.

I don't think many pax join at SAW, and if they do, it's probably less than 5 per flight.

One factor to bear in mind regarding the MAN-MAD situation is that Iberia is just a brand name of IAG, i.e.. the same company as British Airways. From IAG's point of view, multiple connections can be offered from MAN/GLA over LHR to MAD rather than running non-stop flights through the Winter months. As Manchester-based observers we may not like this, but from BAW/IBE's point of view it makes perfect sense. It is exactly the same gameplan we see on every other BAW route except Billund.

Lets keep our fingers crossed that there is some truth in the Iberia Express rumour, although we may have to wait until Spring 2013 at best for that one?

Clearly the situation surrounding MAN-MAD is very confused at the moment. I would find it astonishing if such a profitable route that is quite clearly in demand and with customers prepared to pay for it is dropped by airlines due to 'business model' constraints. Hopefully FR will continue and make hay (they deserve it to have started it and stuck with it) while the sun shines and the route will continue. On a more strategic note (being English myself) I do worry about the ability (competence) of UK managament (EZY/IB(IAG)) to make a success of anything even if it is handed to them on a plate. Could MANs managment do any more to secure the route (I don't know)? When you look at the rest of UK business it really makes you wonder. I know there are plenty of great people out there but with large businesses (airlines) I realy do wonder sometimes if we are up to the job! Food for thought.

I think the problem is that the route wasn't profitable for any of them because of excess capacity and the fact the 3 airlines chose to operate within a few hours of each other.

Cynics might suggest that to lose one carrier on the route is unfortunate but not surprising, to lose two is careless but that to lose all three is a bit of a disaster. To be fair, the situation with FR is perhaps still undecided, so if Sam or anyone else involved in handling etc. can shed any light it would be useful. It would also be interesting to know how much advance warning, if any, the Airport got of the Airlines' intentions to withdraw from the route, if not directly then by slot applications for the winter for example. I'm not sure how much influence the airport could exert in terms of the timings of the flights but it must have been a concern. Presumably, the airlines would argue they didn't want to fly in the morning peak and that the timings were determined by slot availability at both ends, a/c rotations with other routes and so on.

If Madrid is unserved in the winter, how will it affect pax numbers? Some will no doubt be prepared to fly via London, others may chose a different city break but still fly from MAN but let's see what happens to figures for LPL-MAD. Still, there's time yet for things to change. I'm certain MAN will be working on it.

http://www.afairtaxonflying.org/

This forum is dedicated to Manchester News Views & Rumours. If you want more positive stuff to talk about then think about adding your support to this campaign against APD. Website is really easy to use.

Betablocker, it is a good idea, but the bigger impact is from visitors abroad coming to spend cash in UK. Is there a site for us to complain to the Tax men running UK?

Your local MP seems the only option.



Breaking News - EasyJet closing Madrid base and sourcing services from other European bases, but with a 20% reduction in Madrid traffic, if I read the business speak correctly. All from W12.

So there's a few EasyJet aircraft to be distributed to existing bases.

That is some consolation. I had asked whether there was an issue with Madrid rather than just the Manchester route. How many a/c were based there, do we know?
It still looks though as if we may be part of the 20% reduction in MAD flights from other bases.
Still, let's hope we qualify for one of the re-distributed a/c.

Thanks for the info. Betablockeruk

eight Madrid based aircraft and 310 crew

I wouldn't as yet discount IB.

There has been the issue of industrial action at Iberia slowing down the Iberia Express rollout. Air Nostrum may have been doing the route as an opener, but the full launch of the lowcost might have been delayed due to the strikes. IB is using mainline aircraft for IBex and transferring them over might have been slowed down.

I would wait to see if there's a move on this in the next month or so.

Well, I would say for any confirmations, lets wait for the press release. Buuuutttttt............

Anybody see Pprune, and rapidman47's post?

Bright red letters stating 'fly LPL-MAD instead'.

I knew LPL was needed extra passengers, but that's a tad desperate. Maybe he is still clinging on desperately to that 'easyjet are angry at MAN, mark my works' campaign (which Im still waiting for nearly 2 years on......)

Why do Iberia seem to be taking a pasting for not advertising. Think Madrid think Iberia in my eyes. Surely a businessman with a plane to catch and business in Madrid and beyond will walk through the pages of the Airline Guides and see the options available. i.e BA / Iberia

The reality is that Iberia could not make this route pay because it was not supported by the fare paying public of Manchester. A hundred seats a day to a major european capital, in a country with business and
cultural links to the North West. Why pick on Iberia. Look at the cheaper rivals and then decide what the real market is at Manchester. LCCs rule OK

From easyjet customer services "we've indeed decided not to operate on this route during winter months" offers a little hope that a return for S13 is possible..... Or am I just looking for something to launch back at the Liverpool trolls on the Manchester proone thread

I am not one of the trolls, i am merely stating that said person who said that they would rather drive to MAD than go from LPL needs to grow up. If that was the only local route to Madrid then i would take it regardlesd of airline.

Some of the LPL posters need to grow up too.

Gloating purely due to MAN loosing easyjet to Madrid. Yeah, that will make up for the 20% monthly falls!

World_rep i wholeheartedly agree with you there. I am not a LPL poster and although i am from Liverpool and should hold pride in my 'local airport' i dont give a toss about it. MAN is always my preferred airport of choice. These LPL posters need a wake up call thinking that EZYs loss at MAN means that they are going to become bigger.

I think they are just immersing themselves in some 'good news' whilst the airport crumbles around them.

Literallly crumbling aswell... How can a couple of mobiles be called an airport

mant2tktdsk....i have grown up, im 45.... i have worked at Man for many yrs, first with RHS then Servisair and then Menzies. Ive seen alot of airlines come and go, like LPL... it was a mere fact that i said i would rather drive to MAD than fly from LPL, without Easy and Ryan LPL couldnt survive with just Wizz and the odd Flybe....

It looks like as far as EZY is concerned that the issue is MAD not MAN. With regard to IB I don't think not announcing/ advertising the route helped, but like others have said all may not be lost and it may be that they just can't compete with the LCCs. FR will hopefully continue the route anyway and this would fit in with an apparent prevailing split of different routes from different northern airports (i.e. in the same region) provided by the various airlines.

Why would you drive to MAD instead of fly from LPL is my question for you?

ive done alot of flying over the years....so it would be nice to take in the sights by rd, and not just clouds...lol...

Ah right sorry, i thought it was supposed to be a troll like remark regarding LPL being shit ... I know it is but i thought it was still troll like for a regional reason lol

Think theres still hope with Ryanair on Madrid, going back a couple of months when Malev went under Ryanair had full operations and a base up and running in just a few weeks from Budapest to quite a large number of destinations.
Now Ryanair knows that there two competitors are off the route, and have proved there can change routes and slots at short notice, then i wouldn't be surprised if we see announcement shortly sor winter service to Madrid, also remember Ryanair park up alot of aircraft over winter months, so aircraft shortage shouldn't be a problem

Just been reading about the £1 million compensation for residents of Knutsford and Mobberley. Seems the Airport have gone above & beyond what was actually requested and their MP is very happy. There's even a picture of Jeff Gazzard shaking hands on the deal with Charlie Cornish. One of them looks very happy ;-)

Their MP = George O.

So the airport has managed a PR coup with a infamous JG and got friendly with GO. Seems like sound business to me.

Yes, I saw this on Look North West the other day. The Airport does some PR things very well. Perhaps not always so hot on promoting / advertising new routes!

On the subject of Madrid, significant increases in airport charges are being mentioned as the reason for EZY pulling their base. I suppose the same could apply to RYR but who knows what special deal MOL might have got.

Removed again? hahaha! Real mature world_rep! Your moderating skills appear second to none.

Profile37 - by easy319 United Kingdom 1 post - Profile PM on Thursday June 21, 2012 at 18:34 your local time
Removed again? hahaha! Real mature world_rep! Your moderating skills appear second to none

And your posting skills and intellect seem right up there also. Shame it has nothing of substance to offer the topic in discussion. Now you are obviously pleased with yourself about something, so have a nice beer and toast yourself, but next time write something which is interesting, this is not A.Net.

Easy319

I am deleting your posts for the following:

-your first, note FIRST post was calling the site and posters pathetic. what exactly were you expecting to happen, to be welcomed with open arms?

Your posts so far have just been arguementative, belittling and off topic, so rather than turn into an extention of pprune, im deleting to keep the thread on topic and less schoolyard name calling.

Dont likd it? You know where the door is, nobody is forcing you to post.

easy319 judging by the number of posts you have made and the fact they continue to be deleted, one can only guess you joined this site with a single agenda, and due to moderation have singularly failed. Suggest you sit back and consider why.

Is this a football forum? I just keep reading loads of Liverpool is best comments

Anyway, better sit down for this British Airways news:

British Airways franchise carrier Sun-Air of Scandinavia starting 27AUG12 will launch weekdays only service on Manchester - Gothenburg service on board Dornier 328Jet aircraft.

Schedule:

BA8231 GOT0800 - 0900MAN FRJ x67
BA8232 MAN0930 - 1230GOT FRJ x67

Credit Airlineroute.net

[quote=Betablockeruk, 56769]British Airways franchise carrier Sun-Air of Scandinavia starting 27AUG12 will launch weekdays only service on Manchester - Gothenburg service on board Dornier 328Jet aircraft.

Schedule:

BA8231 GOT0800 - 0900MAN FRJ x67
BA8232 MAN0930 - 1230GOT FRJ x67[/quote

Intresting that it's only 1 daily as they've had 2 daily rwy slots booked for the last month.

Good news about Sun Air and appears the rumour given to me was true.

One would assume with an 0800 departure ex-GOT, there will eventually be a unit based at GOT, which means we could see an evening flight return eventually.

Great move by BA/Sun air though, shows how valuable MAN-GOT is!

Maybe 2 daily when they base an aircraft at GOT.

The new Sun-Air route is planned to be operated by an Aarhus based aircraft

AAR-GOT-MAN-GOT-AAR

Oh and in some other news, the entire fleet of LOT Polish B787's are to be maintained at MAN courtesy of Monarch Engineering.

I'm actually worried about several of our flights to Spain at the moment. AETNA is going to be in a position where it has to substantially increase income due to Spain's Euro bailout and need to close revenue gaps. Lossmaking won't be tolerated any more. That means airport fees and charges are going to be a lot higher and that's going to impact on a lot of marginal operations.

But at the same time, is spain going to damage one of its biggest incomes by raising prices to unnaffordable levels. Seems they are in a position where they are damned if they do, damned if they dont.

Great news that the route has been filled so quickly but tinged with disappointment that it's only once daily Mon-Fri, at least for the time being. I would have thought business people would prefer a return option late afternoon / early evening whether originating in GOT or MAN.

What is the capacity of the Dornier 328 by the way?

32 Seats

Thanks wythy.

Sun Air isn't a large airline to start with so taking this route on at short notice may have meant only one rotation was possible until capacity is available.

Just a couple of figures from today.

Only 30 PAX on the inbound Iberia and 77 on the TAP.

The lack of support for the Iberia flight shows, an opportunity missed I fear.

Cracking news.

Keep up the good work world_rep we do not want an a.net pprune website.

In the press:

EASYJET is bringing forward the launch date of its new route from Manchester Airport to Basel a month early. The airline said it will begin flying the service from October 1 due to "exceptionally strong" pre-booking figures. It plans to operate the route for four days a week.

Thanks Betablockeruk

That wouldn't be anything to do with Madrid ceasing 30 Sep. and a/c availability would it?

Seriously though, excellent news.

The fares to Tel Aviv aren't exactly cheap in November so I hope that is a good sign too.

Just to confirm, Basel is now bookable from MAN in October

An interesting take on the MAD situation, courtesy of anna.aero:
http://www.anna.aero/2012/06/22/why-is-easyjet-closing-its-madrid-base/?utm_source=anna.aero newsletter&utm_campaign=8f06ca8a53-anna_nl_220612_resend&utm_medium=email

Hi everyone

Pax figures from today's selected flights.

EY015 208 165
EK021 210 111
SQ328 141 107
UA020 169 153
QR041 224 129
UA100 155 157
AA210 177 174
AA054 211 208
EK017 399 301
TK1993 142 142
EY021 222
EK019 352
IB8502 59

That's all folks

Regards Jimsdad

DY had 142 inbound (nice) and 100 outbound

TK is surprisingly good to considering it's the dead month before schools and colleges finish.

Solid numbers for UA and AA again.

I would like to see some cargo numbers too but that's asking a bit too much. I can see certain flights doing extremely well (such as Etihad) but it's the AA54/55 that interests me. Has the move to widebody meant an an increase in cans carried? If so it definitely bodes well for the JFK to get the upgrade too.

Even better is the fact that the UA21 was beaten today for punters by the UA101, showing Dulles is becoming a sound route.

Hi everyone

Some more pax figures from today. Unfortunately I can't look at cargo details but yes solid figures all round for the AA routes, pity some of today's flights inbound from the Eastern USA seaboard were delayed and Virginand Uni-ted as well. The AA JFK very late with others, the explanation I've heard was that it was some kind of ATC computer glitch in the USA. Caused problems in my shift today I must say with onward connections all having to be re routed or getting later flights where possible.

EY015 196 228
EK021 225 175
UA020 134 delayed
UA100 148 delayed
AA210 145 delayed but had 137 outbound
AA54 223 212
TK1993 127
EK017 448
EY021 179
QR045 201

Thats it for today.( PS i cant bring myself to spell U----ted because I'm a blue correct spike!!! )

Cheers from Jim

So Manchester city is not even united? (I could not let this go uncommented Jim)

Now to #61 - it was the 149 seater LN-KKJ that flew DY1348/1349 yesterday and that gave a combined cabin load of 81%.

Hi LN-KGL

Manchester City will never be I'll have to be careful here Uni-ted as we are in Manchester not Salford!!!!

We are the champions.

Take care my friend.

Jimsdad

148Y if I'm to be picky

As for cargo... I can get cargo figs but I don't think simply posting the weight is much use, I can't look at cans/pallets used sadly

OK, KKJ is one of very few that have only 148 seats, but in reality the aircraft has 149 seats for paying passengers if you also count 0C. The only sad thing about that is that you can't fill this seat on flight to and from UK. The jumpseat on a 737 isn't a comfort seat (almost no leg space, firm padding, five point harnes and the purser may spill the captain's coffee over you - as she did with me between OSL and TRD some years ago), but what a view!

A correction to the cabin load then: 82%

I wasn't aware jumpseating (in the flight deck) was legal anywhere in Europe, although I know it goes on (even to and from UK).

Only for qualified pilots and CAA officials are allowed in the jumpseat in UK airspace I think. Elsewhere it's different rules, but it's always the captain that have the final word.

http://www.scanavphoto.no/_img/full_size/cockpit/KGL_0016.jpg
(I've only added this photo as a link to make it less difficult for the mobile users)

With regard to the post concerning the LOT 787'S being serviced at Manchester in the future? I read that Monarch wee setting up engineering at Warsaw as part of the contract.

Heard the weather was bad on the easy coast of the US hence the late inbounds we saw today.

Not sure if its been mentioned in One of The many threads on here, but Rumour has it that a DL A319 may be paying a visit in mid July! If its true it Will be a very very rare visitor!

I remember hearing from a teacher who jumpseated on KLM
from AMS-NCL because they were overbooked and her husband got the last seat. The captain decided to let her jumpseat.

Another OT, but in Asia and Africa it's fairly common to be allowed to sit in the jump seat if you're nice enough to the captain (or pay him enough...)

Me and my mum did it but that was in 1992, maybe the rules have changed since then.

Hi again guys

Pax figures from today's selected flights.

EY015 179 177
EK021 217 173
QR041 207 197
SQ328 101 173
AA210 177 146
AA054 218 212 (90 minutes late in with some pax missing connections )
UA020 169 138
UA100 151 137
TK1993 139 134
EK017 391
EY021 162
TK1995 142
QR045 243
EK019 261

Regards Jimsdad

Is the Qantas visit in July cancelled?

would that be one of the ones they inherited from Northwest in VIP type configuration for sports team contracts?

It may refer to degrees of attention. Heavy maintenance may be done at Manchester which is Boeing GoldCare approved, but routine and light maintenance would be done at Warsaw. Monarch may be handling that stuff at both ends as they are qualified to do so, so they come here for heavy work needing the speciality tools and setup.

There wouldn't be a lot of point setting up a heavy overhaul shop for such a small fleet which would not even need it for a number of years if all goes well.

What happens to loads during ramadan? Just because im flying QR MAN-DOH-KUL on the 16JUL and HKT-DOH-MAN on the 31JUL. Will the aircraft be empty / doha airport aswell? Do passengers eat on a/c or do they fast - obviously targetted at the passengers taking part in ramadan.

The Delta A319 is bringing the US basketball team in. There will be a Miami Air B737-800 to take them home.

Could be wrong but thought Miami Air was bringing the team in at 1420hrs on 17/7/12 and n/s dep at 1235hrs with Delta A319 due in on 20/7/12 as DL319 in 0640hrs out 1000hrs to take team home reported to be N362NB which is surpose to be one of five from Northwest thats used for charters

not much. It's not a pilgrimage, it's merely a restriction on when you can eat. Many of the airlines operating into the ME make provision for people onboard at sunset or before dawn but passengers still travel. Early and late flights will tend to be busier though.

Airports will still offer food at concessions. Ramadan is not totally compulsory as there are opt-outs such as diabetics and other people who cannot fast, just as there are opt-outs in Judaism for a number of religious provisions such as the former use of porcine insulin before synthetics became available. Catering also has to be provided for non-Moslems. I've had no trouble eating and drinking in Tunisia during Ramadan.

Ah right ok thanks for that!! I was under the impression that loads on MEB3 would decrease during that period?

MEB3 airlines don't just carry Muslims after all. Their non-Muslim trade is still there, and the majority of Muslims still go about their business as normal as nobody can afford to just take the month off to fast.

The Muslims I have asked about it all say they would rather keep busy!

Oh i know MEB3 dont just carry muslims - After 11/12 EK flights taken lol.

Thank you for your help anyway. It is most appreciated.

We did in Dubai.

Hi again pax figures from today.

EY015 212 181
EK021 154 193
SQ328 117 182
AA210 172 166
AA054 218 211
UA020 169 no outbound today
TK1993 121 119
UA100 169 136
EK017 303 360
QR045 223 275
EY021 126
EK019 273

Regards from Jim

This article, from the MEN, suggests that MAG may be nearer to getting it's funding together to buy STN from BAA and also a possible investor for further development.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/deals/s/1581833_asian-billionaire-eyes-manchester-airports-group

The Sun air route is good news, we are basically back up to the old cityjet frequency now. Obviously the capacity will be down (smaller jets so cannot be helped), but well done MAG/BA for getting GOT back to how it was so quickly

Capacity may be down but given the loadings that CF were achieving, it should still be more than enough.

City Airline/Skyways world_rep, CityJet comes from the green island to the west.

Another airline in to bankruptcy - from today Air Finland will stay on the ground.
Source (in Finnish): http://m.iltasanomat.fi/inf/infomo?site=ilta-sanomat&view=osatmatkat&feed:a=a_matkat&feed:c=is_matkat&feed:i=1288479857120

Amazing one came in this afternoon OH-AFM, Imagine impounded!

Really not sure how buying STN will help Manchester which is after all the core product !

Surely any investment down there will be to the detriment of Manchester ?

..plus its actually an airport hemorrhaging routes since the taps were turned off re "alleged" subsidies.

Was OH-AFM scheduled to fly TCX2662 to Dalaman? I see AFM came in from BHX as TCX212P.

The two other Air Finland 752s did not fly today. OH-AFI flew a positioning flight from HEL-ARN yesterday evening (FIF123P), while OH-AFJ flew it's last flight on 21 June HEL-LGW. AFJ was supposed to be delivered to FedEx in July.

Yes OH-AFM was due to fly TCX2662 hence why this flight has such a delay. Saw it fly into MAN on what was their last flight.

Do you know kieb92 what aircraft will replace OH-AFM on TCX2662?

End of the BD code to/from LHR today.

Last arrival of BD from LHR:
BD596 London Heathrow Estimated 23:00

First arrival using the new BA flight number
BA8100 London Heathrow Estimated 08:50


Missed the last BD departure

First depature in new BA flight number
BA8119 London Heathrow Scheduled 09:50

GFCLE was down to operate it. It should have departed about 10 minutes ago.

Hello everyone. My First post. Great site...loads of relevant info, much from those in the know, and love the non-agressive nature of the site. History: I've been a spotter at Ringway since the early '70s, owned my light aircraft & had a PPL, but live away at the moment & do not work in aviation.

My query is: Turkish Airlines are increasing flights/capacity. Do people think this will detrimentally affect the current Mid-East airline capacity by taking passengers away from them? Or is this a positive move creating extra passenger throughput, rather than diluting current loads/yields?

Rufus

I cant see it affecting EK because it is widely used for connections to Australia.

OH-AFM wasn't impounded, and all fees were paid by ILFC then it went on it's way to Perpignan

TAP are to make LIS-MAN 10 weekly next summer
Flights should be uploaded soon.

more airport politics
and you should read the stuff in last nights London's Evening Standard (they even have a campaign for a 3rd runway)!! Maybe not, as it's quite obviously London centric and nothing else exists.

Locked for another thread.